Solar panels and battery to get unlimited range ...

[Darthamerica]

15 miles is 15 miles. That's a long way in one day of sun. It would take a long time to walk 15 miles and you couldn't bring all your stuff with you. You're not going to drive across the country with this, but for extended boondocking it can help you get back out. The usual problem with extended boondocking in an EV is your range gradually disappears with slow but predictable phantom drain. That can be a problem if you used 1/2 your range to get in, and you need almost 1/2 your range to get out. That's slim margins for phantom drain and estimation errors. You may or may not make it without adding some daily range from solar.

For those more interested in doing this than arguing, I'll show you a system that can help add range to your Cybertruck as you boondock for extended periods. In the Dual Motor Cybertruck you will need about 3,870 Wh per day (not including charging losses, transmission losses and phantom drain) to add 10 miles of EPA range per day. Generously assuming you will need to produce 30% more electricity to account for losses, you would need 5,031 Wh/day of solar production.

To this 1200-watt, 6 panel system, it would be necessary to add two 3 into 1 solar panel plug adapters and a bonding ground plug (to fool the Cybertruck that the Jackery outlet is grounded) for a total system cost of around $4,600. Some solar panel extension cords could be convenient too, but I haven't included those.

These six folding solar panels will stack into a space only 9.5 inches tall, and 24"x21" (WxD). The solar panels each weigh 17.5 lbs. The battery generator is 10.5"x12"x15" and weighs 43 lbs. for a total system weight under 150 lbs, including the solar panels. This will have near zero impact on range, compared to how much it can add on the first day.

The 6 panels in this system are 200 Watts each for a total rating of 1200 watts. However, solar panels rarely produce their full rated output. Under full sun, you should be able to conservatively get in the neighborhood of 900-1000 wh (or almost a kWh for every hour of full sun). That means in 5 to 6 hours of direct sun, they can produce more than the 5,031 Wh needed to end up with 3,870 Wh (conservatively) in the EV after accounting for all losses. That's 10 miles of EPA range in a Dual Motor. This assumes Tesla optimizes the software to bring Cybertrucks phantom drain into line with their other EVs (which is a good assumption, I think).

Also, the panels will produce electricity in the early morning hours and late afternoon hours, albeit at a lower rate, this can be used each day too, by charging up the 2.1 kWh battery generator. That production is in addition to the 5,031 Wh calculated for production during the peak 5-6 hours of the day, when the vehicle is actually charging.

Now $4,600 is a lot to spend for slow charging in the backcountry. But additional range may not always be the priority, the extra electricity could also be used in the camp, to run a Dometic cooler, to make coffee or espresso (I have an Illy brand capsule espresso machine that is super efficient with the electrons and makes great espresso), to run an electric blanket in your tent on cold nights (deserts can get surprising cold at night), or even for a Starlink dish to get weather forecasts and stay in touch if out of cell range.

The point here is that electricity can be valuable and convenient in the backcountry, and you will have a good amount of it whenever the sun shines to use as you see fit, yes, including adding range to your EV. These numbers are not pie-in-the-sky numbers if you have sunny weather.

If this is not a use case you are interested in, that's fine, I'll probably never spend the money as I don't boondock for extended periods. The point is, for those who do, and who value flexibility over the cost of the system, it really works. After a few days at one camp, you might find you have enough range to confidently move camp 10-20 miles deeper into the backcountry. The possibilities expand when you can make your own electricity.

This DIY option is not practical for the scenario described in the OP. You could certainly try it. But even if it worked, a slight environmental change could negate any benefit. This is especially important if your operating the truck close to the limit of it’s range. The results of a “bad day” could be anything from delaying your departure an extra day to you getting stranded out in the middle of nowhere.

This post is not meant to argue, it’s meant to highlight the risk involved. EV forums are full of post where owners have experienced higher than expected consumption and vampire drain. It’s no different from not taking a spare tire on such a trip. That’s why the more capable systems I spec’d previously had margin built in.

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[Crissa]

Do you realize that the phantom drain/efficiency when charging at 120V @12A is about 600W of loss?

That's phantom drain of the truck being on at all, mostly because they haven't optimized all the processors' power consumption Which means it's currently going to happen every time you get in or out of it right now, whether or not you plugged in a solar set.

I AM reading your posts, very carefully.

How are you anticipating charging the Cybertruck without an Inverter?

I don't know what's wrong with you that you think the only way to charge a battery is an inverter

This is not how solar charge controllers work.

I AM reading your posts, very carefully.

But what results did you get in your driveway?

...my driveway which only get sun a few hours a day is representative of anything. I live deep in the woods. If you camp deep in the woods, clearly solar isn't going to work for you.

Personally, I tend to camp where I can get sun.

I AM reading your posts, very carefully.

I'm looking for ANY indication of possibility. There has been one, but it required a significant setup.

Why is it that you also continue to prove you don't read anything past the first sentence in each post? And I used to consider you such a good source.

Solar can and will manage vampire drain, allow you to use lights, devices. As I've mentioned (even included a photo taken using power from my solar set). What does putting the truck into the loop get you? A big battery you're already carrying around, and are consuming from just sitting still.

An integrated system that operated at high voltage would be the best option - it's what the Aptera is doing - but no such option exists off the shelf right now. Maybe in the future.

A better question is, how are you going to manage parking your truck for a week out in a primitive location?

-Crissa

 

[Darthamerica]

That's phantom drain of the truck being on at all, mostly because they haven't optimized all the processors' power consumption Which means it's currently going to happen every time you get in or out of it right now, whether or not you plugged in a solar set.







Personally, I tend to camp where I can get sun.


Why is it that you also continue to prove you don't read anything past the first sentence in each post? And I used to consider you such a good source.

Solar can and will manage vampire drain, allow you to use lights, devices. As I've mentioned (even included a photo taken using power from my solar set). What does putting the truck into the loop get you? A big battery you're already carrying around, and are consuming from just sitting still.

An integrated system that operated at high voltage would be the best option - it's what the Aptera is doing - but no such option exists off the shelf right now. Maybe in the future.

A better question is, how are you going to manage parking your truck for a week out in a primitive location?

-Crissa

Solar options cannot be counted on to manage vampire drain. I say again, solar cannot be counted on to manage vampire drain. That’s because even if you have the best possible integrated system, you can’t be certain about the weather and environment. That means sometimes it will work, but often it may not.

Could you choose to take the risk? Yes. Is it possible that it would work sometimes, yes. But the only ways to remove the risk are planning enough reserve battery power to account for losses or to use an ICE generator. Those are independent of the things that influence vampire drain.

People who live in big cities have awakened to find that they are out of battery because they thought they had enough to make it through a night but unexpected vampire drain struck. It’s usually user error of course. But not always. At least in those cases it’s just an inconvenience. But out in the wild, away from help, it could be a disaster. Something as simple as a Tesla SW bug could happen and has happened for example.

Anyone reading this interested in solar should try it! But do not get overconfident and make sure you have sufficient margin built in to your plan so that you aren’t dependent on solar.

 

[HaulingAss]

Do you realize that the phantom drain/efficiency when charging at 120V @12A is about 600W of loss?

It's really easy for you to prove me wrong, go plug your truck into 120V and see.
You can see how many mph charging you get as well.

Maybe you missed the part about the assumption that Tesla optimizes the software in the Cybertruck to match the phantom drain on other vehicles.

Also, you cannot extrapolate the losses during the initial portion of charging to to the entire charge curve because there are many things happening under the hood initially, to optimize charging. My numbers assume the climate control and all other systems (like Sentry Mode and the rest) are disabled and are the average over the entire day.

Is it really your claim that it's impossible for a Cybertruck in a sunny campsite to add 10 miles EPA range per day with a solar generator powered by 1200 watts of panels? If that's your claim, you are wrong. Remember, 10 miles of EPA range is only 3,870 watt hours of charge. 1200 watts of solar panels can produce well over double that over the course of a full day. My numbers were purposefully conservative to account for all the losses.

Now you are just spouting nonsense.

 

[Woodrick]

That's phantom drain of the truck being on at all, mostly because they haven't optimized all the processors' power consumption Which means it's currently going to happen every time you get in or out of it right now, whether or not you plugged in a solar set.







Personally, I tend to camp where I can get sun.


Why is it that you also continue to prove you don't read anything past the first sentence in each post? And I used to consider you such a good source.

Solar can and will manage vampire drain, allow you to use lights, devices. As I've mentioned (even included a photo taken using power from my solar set). What does putting the truck into the loop get you? A big battery you're already carrying around, and are consuming from just sitting still.

An integrated system that operated at high voltage would be the best option - it's what the Aptera is doing - but no such option exists off the shelf right now. Maybe in the future.

A better question is, how are you going to manage parking your truck for a week out in a primitive location?

-Crissa

There are multiple levels of phantom drain. And If you read my post, you may have seen that I also used a term "efficiency"

If you take a look around this site, you'll probably find some threads on 120V charging. While I'm one of the few that say it is possible (although marginally so on the Cybertruck), most of the people just end up saying that it isn't at all effective.
The reason is that the efficiency of charging at 120V has significant overhead. About half of the power goes to keeping the vehicle alive enough to charge.
This is very different than the amount needed to maintain the vehicle when it is asleep.

So @HaulingAss stated that his numbers didn't include these numbers. And my point is that they are significantly higher than his anticipated numbers indicated.

Yes, solar (of a large enough size) can and will manage (vehicle asleep) vampire drain. But size is a HUGE factor. And there's the catch 22 of that when you charge the vehicle, phantom drain gets even higher.

And you chastised me for saying that AC charging is the only way to charge the Cybertruck and then turn around and effectively confirm it?
Aptera? I hope they make it into production. But their car really isn't much more than an enclosed motorcycle. Their 700W array may create about 5kWh per day. Yes, a vehicle that gets less than 200W/mi can then give you the 40 miles range. You won't get a lot of things that you get in a Tesla.

The Cybertruck isn't the Aptera.


So back to the title of the thread "Solar panels and battery to get unlimited range ..."

Is maybe better stated as
How to travel 300 miles off of solar, in only 30 days of charging in the boondocks, for $5,000"

I'm sure that there are there are people charging their Cybertrucks 100% from solar, just as there are other Teslas doing so. But these folks are using large solar arrays, often costing $30k+ often with multiple Powerwalls.


It's all a matter of scale. The $500 solar generator? ROTFLMAO!

 

[HaulingAss]

The reason is that the efficiency of charging at 120V has significant overhead. About half of the power goes to keeping the vehicle alive enough to charge.
This is very different than the amount needed to maintain the vehicle when it is asleep.

So @HaulingAss stated that his numbers didn't include these numbers. And my point is that they are significantly higher than his anticipated numbers indicated.

No, my numbers included the inherent inefficiencies and I made that clear. You seem to have a reading comprehension issue that causes you to mischaracterize what I stated. I never claimed this would work this well in cold conditions, if it never went above freezing you would be unlikely to be able to add ANY range, even if sunny. The numbers are intended to be in climate conducive to boondocking, with warm days.

Yes, solar (of a large enough size) can and will manage (vehicle asleep) vampire drain. But size is a HUGE factor. And there's the catch 22 of that when you charge the vehicle, phantom drain gets even higher.

Just answer the simple question:

Is it your claim that the system I spec'ed could not add 10 miles of EPA range per day under normal conducive conditions.

And you chastised me for saying that AC charging is the only way to charge the Cybertruck and then turn around and effectively confirm it?

I think you have me confused with someone else. Stop mischaracterizing what I say.

So back to the title of the thread "Solar panels and battery to get unlimited range ..."

Is maybe better stated as
How to travel 300 miles off of solar, in only 30 days of charging in the boondocks, for $5,000"

This isn't about travelling 300 miles on solar power alone, it's about not running out of electricity when extended boondocking. And you are obviously more interested in dissuading people from boondocking than you are in doing it yourself. I really don't care if you don't understand why someone might want to do that.

It's all a matter of scale. The $500 solar generator? ROTFLMAO!

You are the only one who put a $500 price limit on it. Plenty of people are in a situation where they would appreciate the extra flexibility this kind of power generation can accomplish more than the money they would save by not buying it. If that's not your use case, maybe you shouldn't ridicule it. It makes you look petty.

 

[Outdoors]

This thread has digressed, and my processes mentioned above would give more than adequate power. Each 5kwh weighs 95 pounds. So bring what one wants. I could charge at 7kw with or without sun. Could dump 30kwh into the truck at once. Rinse and repeat. No losses as charging just like ones WC at home. Maybe a little expensive.

So I stop when others just say no no no. Maybe another thread will start when these folks get tired. Sad. Those that do, get bullied by the non doer's, keyboard warrior 🪖.

Now let’s see how many Cybertruck owners are realistically going to take their vehicle and vanish into the “boondocks” for a longer than a few weeks? If this is a real worry why not just buy a ICE vehicle and never need to worry about charging? Some of them can go 700 miles on a tank of gas! Hell why even take a vehicle at all?

Maybe stop your participating if you think no one does it. Starting to be like this old man I met from Nova Scotia. Always told me nothing could happen and it could never work.

“As long as you keep getting mostly sunny days?”

There is no way you or anyone can forecast weather with that kind of certainty. All it would take is an unexpected haze, fog, rain, clouds, extreme hot/cold and if you’re way out in the middle of nowhere with an empty battery, you’d be stuck or worse!

Us boondockers tend to have all the time in the world. Another week or two we don't really care, and tend to spend 2 weeks minimum at a spot. Or until the first ranger contact. Sounds kind of like you are scared for us. That's sweet , but we will be fine.

A better question is, how are you going to manage parking your truck for a week out in a primitive location?

-Crissa

I personally haven't had much problem being off grid and leaving my car for 2 weeks at a time multiple times in the Wind River Range. The model 3 early on did pretty well and I think in a couple weeks we'll see minimal drain for those that take the proactive measures of turning off the sentury and all those good things. Sometimes you can't fix stupid.

 

[Woodrick]

No, my numbers included the inherent inefficiencies and I made that clear. You seem to have a reading comprehension issue that causes you to mischaracterize what I stated. I never claimed this would work this well in cold conditions, if it never went above freezing you would be unlikely to be able to add ANY range, even if sunny. The numbers are intended to be in climate conducive to boondocking, with warm days.



Just answer the simple question:

Is it your claim that the system I spec'ed could not add 10 miles of EPA range per day under normal conducive conditions.

Yes, I believe that I mentioned that you included some efficiency issues, but it wasn't enough. I never mentioned anything about temperatures.

Yes, I do not believe in your specified setup that you can add 10 miles on a good day. I'm even fine with the current 14+ hour days. I do ask that either the device batteries are nearly empty or that the test is over 2 days. (There's a difference between 10 miles in a day and 10 miles per day)
Please prove me wrong.

 

[HaulingAss]

Yes, I believe that I mentioned that you included some efficiency issues, but it wasn't enough. I never mentioned anything about temperatures.

Yes, I do not believe in your specified setup that you can add 10 miles on a good day. I'm even fine with the current 14+ hour days. I do ask that either the device batteries are nearly empty or that the test is over 2 days. (There's a difference between 10 miles in a day and 10 miles per day)
Please prove me wrong.

How about this:

I'll buy the solar generator for $4600 plus any sales tax (it has free shipping). If I can't get it to add 10 miles per day for two days in a row, I'll send you a check for another $4600. But if I can get it to add 10 miles per day for two consecutive days, you send me a check for $4600 plus tax.

Deal?

 

[Woodrick]

How about this:

I'll buy the solar generator for $4600 plus any sales tax (it has free shipping). If I can't get it to add 10 miles per day for two days in a row, I'll send you a check for another $4600. But if I can get it to add 10 miles per day for two consecutive days, you send me a check for $4600 plus tax.

Deal?

You may be able to return it when you find it doesn't work.
Of course, since you need it so much, if you are going to gain the value, then you should happily pay for it.

Or do you not believe that there is the value proposition that you suggest?

If it does work, I will happily state that I was incorrect.



I will suggest that you see just how many miles that you can get off of 120V 15A (since all tricks come with the adapter) just to help with your knowledge.

 

[HaulingAss]

You may be able to return it when you find it doesn't work.
Of course, since you need it so much, if you are going to gain the value, then you should happily pay for it.

Or do you not believe that there is the value proposition that you suggest?

If it does work, I will happily state that I was incorrect.



I will suggest that you see just how many miles that you can get off of 120V 15A (since all tricks come with the adapter) just to help with your knowledge.

Feeling chicken? I was only going to buy another solar battery and panels if I knew you were paying for it!

I never said I needed it, you don't listen very well, I previously said I DIDN"T need it and wouldn't be buying a setup for myself since I don't do extended boondocking. The whole point of buying it was to prove you wrong and have you pay for proving you wrong in the end. I was going to be risking over $9200 of loss, while you were only asked to risk the $4600 plus sales tax. Proving you wrong at zero net cost was my goal, but since you knew you were full of shit, you chickened out. Now you claim I "need" another Solar Generator so much!

You should really stop misrepresenting what I say. And also stop spouting so much BS you know so little about.

 

[Woodrick]

Feeling chicken? I was only going to buy another solar battery and panels if I knew you were paying for it!

I never said I needed it, you don't listen very well, I previously said I DIDN"T need it and wouldn't be buying a setup for myself since I don't do extended boondocking. The whole point of buying it was to prove you wrong and have you pay for proving you wrong in the end. I was going to be risking over $9200 of loss, while you were only asked to risk the $4600 plus sales tax. Proving you wrong at zero net cost was my goal, but since you knew you were full of shit, you chickened out. Now you claim I "need" another Solar Generator so much!

You should really stop misrepresenting what I say. And also stop spouting so much BS you know so little about.

Let me make it easy.
I just took my solar generator solution up to the truck and it wouldn't charge. It turned on the light as if it was starting and then shut off.
Yes, I do have a couple solar charging solutions.

 

[HaulingAss]

Let me make it easy.
I just took my solar generator solution up to the truck and it wouldn't charge. It turned on the light as if it was starting and then shut off.
Yes, I do have a couple solar charging solutions.

Don't be a dipshit. Did you have 1200 watts worth of solar panels in full sunlight?

No, you didn't. Your solar generator won't even accept 1200 watts of solar input! Just because you don't know how to spec out a solar generator for a specific application, doesn't mean you have to pin your failures on everyone else.

It seems like you failed, so you don't want anyone else to do it correctly and succeed.

 

[Outdoors]

I will take some side action on this. Going to a charity for dogs. Figured that is a good one since this thread headed there a while ago.

Looks like the other fella gave up. Down to the final two here. Step up to the window. Place your friendly charity bets.

I am taking @HaulingAss. One has to have the right solar generator. The ecoflowdelta works as well. I think he can do it.

 

[Woodrick]

Don't be a dipshit. Did you have 1200 watts worth of solar panels in full sunlight?

No, you didn't. Your solar generator won't even accept 1200 watts of solar input! Just because you don't know how to spec out a solar generator for a specific application, doesn't mean you have to pin your failures on everyone else.

It seems like you failed, so you don't want anyone else to do it correctly and succeed.

Do you have any?

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