Doug Demuro the hater…thoughts on his latest comments?

[BlueLightning]

Ahhh man! Another two years, it’s already been four years!!

Sponsored

 

[Hemi314]

Doug is just plain wrong. You can’t judge the entire market by one example.
Also, the actual selling price of that truck was $61k + 5% fee, so $64k.

Msrp + dest = $82k- 64k=18k

$18k depreciation over 20k miles is not horrible depreciation for a luxury vehicle. Also the purple wrap probably hurt the selling price of that example.

If there are $35k Cybertrucks in a year and a half, they will be super high mileage clap boxes.

 

[hemiarch]

Who still thinks this dude is objective?
By show of hands.

Not a single mention of the word FSD in an 11 minute discussion about basically the Y vs the R2.
It’s like talking about Mike Tyson as a so called boxing expert without bringing up the peek-a-boo gazelle punch once.
Yes, the R2 has off-road capabilities but it does not drive itself.
in my opinion any fool can see this guy has been bought and sold by Rivian because it’s no longer cool to be a Tesla fan.

 

[dalton108]

Who still thinks this dude is objective?
By show of hands.

Not a single mention of the word FSD in an 11 minute discussion about basically the Y vs the R2.
It’s like talking about Mike Tyson as a so called boxing expert without bringing up the peek-a-boo gazelle punch once.
Yes, the R2 has off-road capabilities but it does not drive itself.
in my opinion any fool can see this guy has been bought and sold by Rivian because it’s no longer cool to be a Tesla fan.

I mean he also just came out within the last week and said that the Model S is one of the most important cars of the modern era. So, I think he just likes what he likes.

I watched his review of the R2 and a few other others and it’s outfit fitted with I think as many cameras as Tesla is currently are and sonic centers and apparently has the ability to the outfitted with LiDar. Allegedly they are going to be shipping some sort of ADAS next year that will compete with FSD. WE’LL SEE ABOUT THAT.

I think the real problem with FSD is Tesla seeming to think that only they will crack it. Well, that’s crazy! There will be multiple solutions including humanoid robots that can drive whatever car you have.

I think that Elon has mismanaged Tesla’s lead with FSD, politically he’s made the company toxic so other manufacturers don’t want to license it. He’s been doing all kinds of crazy Ivan’s about pricing and whether you can buy it because I think he’s genuinely angry with the way Tesla is currently being received and the various sale declines that have resulted from his ill-advised adventures (at least from the viewpoint of Tesla’s market share) in venting his spleen politically and as I always point out literally shitting on his core customers.

This whole kerfuffle over the 10 day pricing on the new cyber truck variant is just wild and so unnecessary he could’ve just kept his trap shut instead now it’s a thing.

So do I think that Doug is a big Tesla fan anymore no. I still own my model S plaid based on his recommendation he still reveals the car and says that it has a permanent place in history he went on to say “like it or not.” So I think yes you can be objective and not like Elon. I’ll raise my hand for that as well I am not a fan. I’ve been clear on that.

I will Stan these cars and my truck forever because they are incredible. That’s despite of their chief executive, not because of him. My wife was just joking about how many Teslas I’ve sold just because of praising them all the time on the strength of the cars alone it’s a couple of dozen easy … from family, to clients, to colleagues, to employees.

With other cars coming on with NACS, battery technology improvements on the horizon and Tesla no longer being interested in really being a car manufacturing my device is going to change I can assure you of that. Not yet, but it will.

I think the R2 is going to do very well, and I think the R3 is going to be a smash hit.

 

[hemiarch]

Yeah. It was undoubtedly one of the most important cars of the modern era. Fact. You don’t have to be terribly insightful to reach that conclusion. Even a person who has never been in a car and only saw sales numbers could arrive at it.
As you know counselor, we see eye to eye on a lot of things but not on this dudes objectivity. He lost that when he started trading cars for his own profit years ago.
I agree that there is very bad judgment in Tesla leadership squandering not only the lead in charging infrastructure which I believe much to the chagrin of many of our friends here will ultimately go down as one of the dumbest moves in corporate history, but also now it appears in autonomous driving too because of what seem to be largely immature ego driven decisions. 100%.Decisions that legitimately piss me off as a shareholder. Let’s be real. How many people would buy a Rivian or Hummer if they had to use PlugShare to figure out how the fuck they are going to charge it and it took them an entire day to go from Vegas to LA?
Notwithstanding, failing to address either of these enormous advantages as a reviewer in any fashion and at any point in discussing these two cars demonstrates clear bias probably acquired by Rivian making him feel “special” as one of the select few who got to take a first pass at this thing.

 

[dalton108]

Yeah. It was undoubtedly one of the most important cars of the modern era. Fact. You don’t have to be terribly insightful to reach that conclusion. Even a person who has never been in a car and only saw sales numbers could arrive at it.
As you know counselor, we see eye to eye on a lot of things but not on this dudes objectivity. He lost that when he started trading cars for his own profit years ago.
I agree that there is very bad judgment in Tesla leadership squandering not only the lead in charging infrastructure which I believe much to the chagrin of many of our friends here will ultimately go down as one of the dumbest moves in corporate history, but also now it appears in autonomous driving too because of what seem to be largely immature ego driven decisions. 100%.Decisions that legitimately piss me off as a shareholder.
Notwithstanding, failing to address either of these enormous advantages as a reviewer in any fashion and at any point in discussing these two cars demonstrates clear bias probably acquired by Rivian making him feel “special” as one of the select few who got to take a first pass at this thing.

I hadn’t watched the podcast before I responded and now I have. I think I agree with him and I don’t think it has anything to do with hating on Tesla in anyway. The model Y is the leading car in its class but as people have been saying for some time it really doesn’t have a competitor everybody scrambling I’m trying to catch up with Tesla and they’re not making it happen fast enough.

I’m a car guy and I listened to what he said and he seems to be saying that he thinks the R2 is just going to be a hit and he’s not really comparing it to anything from Tesla. They had the discussion about the ex being canceled etc. but he’s talking about this being like a forerunner plus (I forgot whatever other car) and that making it special because it’s stylish and capable and people are going to eat it up. He also knows the pricing which he didn’t share with us because of the embargo. I don’t know the pricing but I can tell you this I really freaking like it! I can tell you that my wife definitely would’ve gotten this over her Y if it had been an option, I’m pretty sure she would’ve gotten it over her X too.

Right now, I still would’ve pushed her towards both of those cars, as soon as Rivian launches a credible FSD competitor that’ll be over. Not only because the X is discontinued either.

I think you’re being a bit hard his review. I can tell you that car guys just don’t like Tesla anymore. My guys from Throttle House just became the new grand tour hosts and they absolutely fucking hate Tesla. If you think that Doug is a hater and let’s put him on a 1 to 10 scale at a 9 they’re at 1 million. Easy!

Marquez is mad that they’re ignoring him now, dirty Tesla is talking shit and got rid of his cyber truck. They’re making zero friends. The Tesla time news guys who are still in the tank for Tesla have seen their viewership fall by 75% due to all of their sycophancy.

Tesla has made it very hard for themselves. But I just don’t think this review is fairly put in that lens. I think he’s really congratulating Rivian on creating what is well regarded by everybody that’s reviewed it yet and in his mind likely to be a huge success. I can totally see that, and I don’t even know what the price is.

 

[hemiarch]

I hadn’t watched the podcast before I responded and now I have. I think I agree with him and I don’t think it has anything to do with hating on Tesla in anyway. The model Y is the leading car in its class but as people have been saying for some time it really doesn’t have a competitor everybody scrambling I’m trying to catch up with Tesla and they’re not making it happen fast enough.

I’m a car guy and I listened to what he said and he seems to be saying that he thinks the R2 is just going to be a hit and he’s not really comparing it to anything from Tesla. They had the discussion about the ex being canceled etc. but he’s talking about this being like a forerunner plus (I forgot whatever other car) and that making it special because it’s stylish and capable and people are going to eat it up. He also knows the pricing which he didn’t share with us because of the embargo. I don’t know the pricing but I can tell you this I really freaking like it! I can tell you that my wife definitely would’ve gotten this over her Y if it had been an option, I’m pretty sure she would’ve gotten it over her X too.

Right now, I still would’ve pushed her towards both of those cars, as soon as Rivian launches a credible FSD competitor that’ll be over. Not only because the X is discontinued either.

I think you’re being a bit hard his review. I can tell you that car guys just don’t like Tesla anymore. My guys from Throttle House just became the new grand tour hosts and they absolutely fucking hate Tesla. If you think that Doug is a hater and let’s put him on a 1 to 10 scale at a 9 they’re at 1 million. Easy!

Marquez is mad that they’re ignoring him now, dirty Tesla is talking shit and got rid of his cyber truck. They’re making zero friends. The Tesla time news guys who are still in the tank for Tesla have seen their viewership fall by 75% due to all of their sycophancy.

Tesla has made it very hard for themselves. But I just don’t think this review is fairly put in that lens. I think he’s really congratulating Rivian on creating what is well regarded by everybody that’s reviewed it yet and in his mind likely to be a huge success. I can totally see that, and I don’t even know what the price is.

Can certainly add poor relationships with what is the modern day media to the list of poor decisions.
With respect to autonomy though, all I’ve seen thus far from the competition is words.
there literally isn’t a single other car you can type an address into and arrive safely at your destination.
If they had any common sense they wouldn’t have allowed everyone to charge on their network to start with but even now, if they don’t make it prohibitively expensive. Their car business is done because you’re right, it’s only a matter of time before everyone else catches up. It’s hard to keep software knowhow secret.
They say they don’t care if their car business dies though. Maybe so. I bet you the investors who footed the bill to get here still care.

 

[dalton108]

Can certainly add poor relationships with what is the modern day media to the list of poor decisions.
With respect to autonomy though, all I’ve seen thus far from the competition is words.
there literally isn’t a single other car you can type an address into and arrive safely at your destination.
If they had any common sense they wouldn’t have allowed everyone to charge on their network to start with but even now, if they don’t make it prohibitively expensive. Their car business is done because you’re right, it’s only a matter of time before everyone else catches up. It’s hard to keep software knowhow secret.
They say they don’t care if their car business dies though. Maybe so. I bet you the investors who footed the bill to get here still care.

You are right. Only talk from competitors and crappy products like Blue cruise. However nobody is standing still. And another unforced error that you just reminded me of is how absolutely apoplectic everybody is (particularly car reviewers) about getting rid of autopilot and forcing people to subscribe to FSD. Especially when auto lane keeping is available on just about every modern vehicle! Kyle from out of spec was particularly pissed off and comparing this to a modern Corolla which has it for significantly less than the price of a Tesla.

I’m still miffed that I don’t have auto pilot on my CT because I can’t use FSD when I’m pulling a trailer and all I want is for the car to keep itself in the lane I’m not asking too much.

Traffic aware cruise control? Are you fucking kidding me? I had that on my 2007 Infiniti G35-S (fantastic car by the way and it was one of the first to have it). Again these miserly decisions intended to force people to bend to Tesla as well to buy FSD or whatever our backfiring and they’re the kinds of decisions that somebody who doesn’t understand human nature would make. The man need somebody to tell him no and how actual humans behave so they can stop shooting Tesla in the foot.

 

[hemiarch]

You are right. Only talk from competitors and crappy products like Blue cruise. However nobody is standing still. And another unforced error that you just reminded me of is how absolutely apoplectic everybody is (particularly car reviewers) about getting rid of autopilot and forcing people to subscribe to FSD. Especially when auto lane keeping is available on just about every modern vehicle! Kyle from out of spec was particularly pissed off and comparing this to a modern Corolla which has it for significantly less than the price of a Tesla.

I’m still miffed that I don’t have auto pilot on my CT because I can’t use FSD when I’m pulling a trailer and all I want is for the car to keep itself in the lane I’m not asking too much.

Traffic aware cruise control? Are you fucking kidding me? I had that on my 2007 Infiniti Q 35S (fantastic car by the way and it was one of the first to have it). Again these miserly decisions intended to force people to bend to Tesla as well to buy FSD or whatever our backfiring and they’re the kinds of decisions that somebody who doesn’t understand human nature would make. The man need somebody to tell him no and how actual humans behave so they can stop shooting Tesla in the foot.

Apoplectic is a great word.
Personally I’m a lot more upset about spending a shit-ton (metric) of money on powerwall 3 and solar which was promised to work with my truck and still doesn’t and I know quite a few people who are pretty ticked off about the range extender debacle too.
Tesla is and should be much bigger at this point than Elon Musk as you point out and illogical decisions are still illogical even if they are suggested by someone people have come to believe is a genius who has achieved a great deal.
When your CEO is off hobknobbing with politicians and trying to get his other company to space, someone else needs to step up.

 

[EWELON]

I mean he also just came out within the last week and said that the Model S is one of the most important cars of the modern era. So, I think he just likes what he likes.

I watched his review of the R2 and a few other others and it’s outfit fitted with I think as many cameras as Tesla is currently are and sonic centers and apparently has the ability to the outfitted with LiDar. Allegedly they are going to be shipping some sort of ADAS next year that will compete with FSD. WE’LL SEE ABOUT THAT.

I think the real problem with FSD is Tesla seeming to think that only they will crack it. Well, that’s crazy! There will be multiple solutions including humanoid robots that can drive whatever car you have.

I think that Elon has mismanaged Tesla’s lead with FSD, politically he’s made the company toxic so other manufacturers don’t want to license it. He’s been doing all kinds of crazy Ivan’s about pricing and whether you can buy it because I think he’s genuinely angry with the way Tesla is currently being received and the various sale declines that have resulted from his ill-advised adventures (at least from the viewpoint of Tesla’s market share) in venting his spleen politically and as I always point out literally shitting on his core customers.

This whole kerfuffle over the 10 day pricing on the new cyber truck variant is just wild and so unnecessary he could’ve just kept his trap shut instead now it’s a thing.

So do I think that Doug is a big Tesla fan anymore no. I still own my model S plaid based on his recommendation he still reveals the car and says that it has a permanent place in history he went on to say “like it or not.” So I think yes you can be objective and not like Elon. I’ll raise my hand for that as well I am not a fan. I’ve been clear on that.

I will Stan these cars and my truck forever because they are incredible. That’s despite of their chief executive, not because of him. My wife was just joking about how many Teslas I’ve sold just because of praising them all the time on the strength of the cars alone it’s a couple of dozen easy … from family, to clients, to colleagues, to employees.

With other cars coming on with NACS, battery technology improvements on the horizon and Tesla no longer being interested in really being a car manufacturing my device is going to change I can assure you of that. Not yet, but it will.

I think the R2 is going to do very well, and I think the R3 is going to be a smash hit.

Conn, Sonar: CRAZY IVAN!

 

[hemiarch]

Conn, Sonar: CRAZY IVAN!

Mr. Ambassador, you have nearly a hundred naval vessels operating in the North Atlantic right now. Your aircraft has dropped enough sonar buoys so that a man could walk from Greenland to Iceland to Scotland without getting his feet wet. Now, shall we dispense with the bull?

 

[EWELON]

Mr. Ambassador, you have nearly a hundred naval vessels operating in the North Atlantic right now. Your aircraft has dropped enough sonar buoys so that a man could walk from Greenland to Iceland to Scotland without getting his feet wet. Now, shall we dispense with the bull?

…I would have liked to have seen Montana.

 

[Mal]

WRT Rivians, I'm sure they're pretty great at what they do. But, other than the lack of FSD, there is another non-starter for me:

I can't get past the nostrils. I just can't.

 

[dalton108]

WRT Rivians, I'm sure they're pretty great at what they do. But, other than the lack of FSD, there is another non-starter for me:

I can't get past the nostrils. I just can't.

I loved the “stadium headlights” at first sight when they came out with their first prototype of the R1T. FSD is the primary moat that has kept me from buying one. The second one was value proposition and software. Tesla has always giving you more on both of those fronts then really anyone else can approach.

But if we’re just talking about looks, I would definitely be driving on an R1S or T right now over my CB. I also think the Rivian kind flubbed the trim battery combo ease of ordering. When I was looking, it seemed to be really difficult to get the quad motor with the biggest battery - which is all I would’ve wanted. And then, by the time you spec’ed it out, it was a ridiculous amount of money and a ridiculously long wait!

No one can really touch Tesla when it comes to supply chain and logistics in the EV industry. It’s another amazing and hard won advantage that Elon has squandered.

He could still be selling more of everything than he could possibly make instead of antagonizing the world and being down 70% in some Nordic countries, 50% in Germany, 40% in France, roughly 10% here and in the UK, and even high single digits down in China (of all markets) YOY ‘24 to ‘25.

It’s an even more stunning decline YOY if you just look at January registrations where it’s down 65% for example in the UK, ‘25 to ‘26.

 

[Speedr]

2008: The Blackberry was king with their keyboard, but I can't believe how they squandered their lead with Nokia coming out with a phone with a keyboard. Yeah, regardless that they don't run apps like the iPhone (it's so unimportant most reviewers don't even mention it), I'm sure they'll add them and they will be just as good and be the leader...

Sponsored