PowerShare Quote Doubled! Electric company won’t approve setup

[ModelCYBR]

Interesting PowerShare story… I called to schedule install (had existing quote) and they said they can’t do it now cause SoCal Electric doesn’t approve of the hardware anymore and have stopped installs.

However they can do another method and just backup some breakers but the quote doubles from $2000 to over $4000.

They said they are waiting for Tesla and SCE to figure out the path forward but no ETA. Probably two EE’s arguing over lineman risk is my guess.

How do I go about getting the free supercharging credits in the time being? I am willing to wait and get the gateway once they are done with their back and forth. Not wanting to use the $2500 credit on tesla merch.

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[Jager]

You don't provide details on your original quote, but it sounds like that config was having the PowerShare Gateway wired directly between your meter and your panel. In effect providing whole-house backup, but requiring you to actively manage which loads are used, when... because the output of the Cybertruck is not sufficient to power everything at the same time.

Sounds like they've now shifted you to the config where they mount a sub-panel adjacent to the PowerShare Gateway, with the circuits to be backed up managed that way.

The second config is analogous to a conventional transfer switch, but is a bit more work to install than the first config.

Assuming PowerShare Gateway / Universal Wall Charger installation somewhere proximate to one's electric panel, neither config is particularly difficult; and neither warrants the very high installation quotes we're typically seeing.

 

[ModelCYBR]

Correct it went from whole home to specific breakers and doubled in price.

Electric company has said ALL installs must stop doing that config and are in talks with Tesla.

In meantime, while the EE’s bicker back and forth… how do I get the free supercharging credit others have gotten for having to wait too?

 

[mongo]

You don't provide details on your original quote, but it sounds like that config was having the PowerShare Gateway wired directly between your meter and your panel. In effect providing whole-house backup, but requiring you to actively manage which loads are used, when... because the output of the Cybertruck is not sufficient to power everything at the same time.

Sounds like they've now shifted you to the config where they mount a sub-panel adjacent to the PowerShare Gateway, with the circuits to be backed up managed that way.

The second config is analogous to a conventional transfer switch, but is a bit more work to install than the first config.

Assuming PowerShare Gateway / Universal Wall Charger installation somewhere proximate to one's electric panel, neither config is particularly difficult; and neither warrants the very high installation quotes we're typically seeing.

How is full panel backup not analogous to a standard automatic transfer switch?

 

[ModelCYBR]

How is full panel backup not analogous to a standard automatic transfer switch?

Gotta ask SoCal electric…

 

[Don Draper]

Just forget about it, spend the $2500. Wait till they figure it out in a few years. That's my plan. Makes no sense to get incomplete work for $4000 or more. How often does your power go out? Buy some really nice extension cords for your refrigerators.

 

[mongo]

Gotta ask SoCal electric…

Yah, but I was meaning this comment:

The second config is analogous to a conventional transfer switch, but is a bit more work to install than the first config.

 

[justinpratt]

California and SoCal Edison is probably being spiteful with Tesla.
No generators . Can’t use your truck to PowerShare.
I’m so glad I left that turd of a state.

Nobody: “Let’s make life harder for people.”

State of California: “Hold my beer. Watch this…”

 

[Victsm]

Got the same thing in SF Bay Area.
I was provided with more details.
The cheaper quote was with using Tesla backup switch to provide full panel backup.
The more expensive option is to do a load transfer to selectively backup certain circuits up to the full panel.
The difference of the cost should be coming from the effort required to do a load transfer installation, as shown in the video here.
I was told that while Tesla backup switch is approved (by PG&E) for usage with Tesla power wall, it’s not yet approved for power share.
Should be similar story for SoCal.

I also read somewhere in the forum that full panel backup has a certain drawback.
If the total wattage in the panel when loaded onto Cybertruck exceeds the maximum limit, Cybertruck would shut off power share.
You would then need to manually shut off a few circuit breakers in your panel box and manually restart cybertruck PowerShare.
The load transfer option however allows the flexibility to leave out a few uncritical circuits, so that the total wattage of the backed up circuits never exceeds the limit.
Seems like a trade off between cost and convenience.

 

[Crissa]

California and SoCal Edison is probably being spiteful with Tesla.
No generators . Can’t use your truck to PowerShare.
I’m so glad I left that turd of a state.

Nobody: “Let’s make life harder for people.”

State of California: “Hold my beer. Watch this…”

That doesn't have anything to do with California. Electric companies defend their turf.

California actually has laws making them required to accept solar installations.

-Crissa

 

[Jager]

How is full panel backup not analogous to a standard automatic transfer switch?

Well, the Gateway + Sub Panel config is like a standard transfer switch in that specific circuits have been pre-identified to be backed up; and presumably the sum of those circuits does not exceed the output of the alternative power source (the Cybertruck, in this case).

The Full Panel config simply provides power to the panel, with no consideration for the amperages used by the loads. It's entirely on the homeowner to manage - either by flipping breakers or by simply not using certain loads - the capacity that the Cybertruck is able to provide.

Both configs perform the most critical function of a transfer switch - ensuring that when the Cybertruck is delivering power to the home there is no possibility of backfeeding into the grid.

Most 200-amp homes are already "overloaded" in the sense that the sum of their loads already exceeds those 200 amps. It works out because no one energizes all loads in their house simultaneously. But that's a hidden consideration that most folks are simply not cognizant of.

When backing up the entire panel with the Cybertruck, though, it would very quickly become necessary that people understand the math going on there, because the Cybertruck's delivery falls far short of those 200 amps.

For anyone who gets all that, I think the Full Panel config is much to be preferred. But the local utility may not agree... ergo the problem the OP is having.

 

[mongo]

Well, the Gateway + Sub Panel config is like a standard transfer switch in that specific circuits have been pre-identified to be backed up; and presumably the sum of those circuits does not exceed the output of the alternative power source (the Cybertruck, in this case).

The Full Panel config simply provides power to the panel, with no consideration for the amperages used by the loads. It's entirely on the homeowner to manage - either by flipping breakers or by simply not using certain loads - the capacity that the Cybertruck is able to provide.

Both configs perform the most critical function of a transfer switch - ensuring that when the Cybertruck is delivering power to the home there is no possibility of backfeeding into the grid.

Most 200-amp homes are already "overloaded" in the sense that the sum of their loads already exceeds those 200 amps. It works out because no one energizes all loads in their house simultaneously. But that's a hidden consideration that most folks are simply not cognizant of.

When backing up the entire panel with the Cybertruck, though, it would very quickly become necessary that people understand the math going on there, because the Cybertruck's delivery falls far short of those 200 amps.

For anyone who gets all that, I think the Full Panel config is much to be preferred. But the local utility may not agree... ergo the problem the OP is having.

Yeah, agree with that. Was just a little confused because full house/ panel generator backup with automatic transfer switch is not an uncommon thing. Especially for people with geothermal heating systems where the biggest load is a critical one.

Selected circuit backup (outside the Powerwall type products) is something I see more with manual transfer switches. At which point turning off breakers in the main panel is a similar effort.

 

[justinpratt]

That doesn't have anything to do with California. Electric companies defend their turf.

California actually has laws making them required to accept solar installations.

-Crissa

Point being, generally speaking, many entities in that state don’t seem to make decisions with any level of rationality. So yes, it does have to do with California.
And what is an electric company defending? With PowerShare, you’re running appliances for a moment, from your vehicle. A “Tesla wall on wheels”.
Their power is not on when you are most likely to use the technology.

 

[Jager]

Yeah, agree with that. Was just a little confused because full house/ panel generator backup with automatic transfer switch is not an uncommon thing. Especially for people with geothermal heating systems where the biggest load is a critical one.

Selected circuit backup (outside the Powerwall type products) is something I see more with manual transfer switches. At which point turning off breakers in the main panel is a similar effort.

Roger that. Whole house backup generators are a whole different kettle of fish... both in having their switchover happen automatically; and typically providing enough power to drive most anything the owner wishes, obviating that homeowner from having to understand or think about load amperages.

Homeowners running smaller, portable generators have always had to be mindful of the loads they're running vis-a-vis the capacity of their generator.

The Cybertruck / PowerShare solution is more akin to a middling size generator (larger than most portable generators, but smaller than most permanent, whole-house generators). And for all the mystery that surrounds the PowerShare Gateway, it's actually little more than a very nice transfer switch.

 

[mongo]

Roger that. Whole house backup generators are a whole different kettle of fish... both in having their switchover happen automatically; and typically providing enough power to drive most anything the owner wishes, obviating that homeowner from having to understand or think about load amperages.

Homeowners running smaller, portable generators have always had to be mindful of the loads they're running vis-a-vis the capacity of their generator.

The Cybertruck / PowerShare solution is more akin to a middling size generator (larger than most portable generators, but smaller than most permanent, whole-house generators). And for all the mystery that surrounds the PowerShare Gateway, it's actually little more than a very nice transfer switch.

Yar, Powershare is double the power of the portable generator I've been using.

Not sure why full vs partial matters to the power company. Maybe they haven't approved 3V as a service rated disconnect? In which case you would need:
meter->200A main -> Gateway -> loads
Basically requiring an additional 200A disconnect between meter and Gateway to allow full panel backup. In which case you might as well install a partitioned backup panel instead and feed Gateway from the existing main.

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