👷‍♂️ Tesla plans for 375K Cybertruck annual production (at least) and have first release candidates by late August! [supplier news 6/8/23]

[cvalue13]

I'm hoping it will be something simple like attaching a copy of your tax returns when you order

haven't thought hard on this, but isn’t there a timing problem with this?

the credit would apply to the year in which delivery is taken. And similarly the annual income caps would be with respect to the year delivery is taken. If so, then a person taking delivery in say January would be merely estimating their income for the remainder of the year.

Perhaps I’ve missed a nuance that the relevant income is the year prior to taking delivery? But even then, how are dealers to know that the eg W2 is the only relevant income for a buyer. Are buyers really going to share their W2 or entire tax return?

Since I took delivery of my Lightning well before the tax changes and 2024, I haven’t focused much on figuring this out.

But since I can be sure I won’t see a CT in 2023, I suppose my curiosity is up

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[EVSport7]

haven't thought hard on this, but isn’t there a timing problem with this?

the credit would apply to the year in which delivery is taken. And similarly the annual income caps would be with respect to the year delivery is taken. If so, then a person taking delivery in say January would be merely estimating their income for the remainder of the year.

Perhaps I’ve missed a nuance that the relevant income is the year prior to taking delivery? But even then, how are dealers to know that the eg W2 is the only relevant income for a buyer. Are buyers really going to share their W2 or entire tax return?

Since I took delivery of my Lightning well before the tax changes and 2024, I haven’t focused much on figuring this out.

But since I can be sure I won’t see a CT in 2023, I suppose my curiosity is up

Or perhaps just screenshot the first page with your AGI? Idk I have a few years before we will be over the household limit so I guess I didn't think about those straddling the line.

I feel that to some degree the consumer has to be truthful. If you apply for the credit knowing that your income is about to shoot up past the limit then you're probably getting audited come tax time

 

[Crissa]

Im pretty curious how they intend to put manufacturers in charging of qualifying people for the tax credit or is big gob’t gonna get their jollies chasing non quals down the road?

It wasn't written by that party. That get into political territory, tho.

Anyhow, the bigger point is the manufacturers always were in charge of creating the paperwork for the cars.

-Crissa

 

[WormtownKris]

haven't thought hard on this, but isn’t there a timing problem with this?

the credit would apply to the year in which delivery is taken. And similarly the annual income caps would be with respect to the year delivery is taken. If so, then a person taking delivery in say January would be merely estimating their income for the remainder of the year.

Perhaps I’ve missed a nuance that the relevant income is the year prior

Guessing that they would go by the most recent complete tax year? And if it is based on the current year they’ll estimate/project based on the previous year. Then if you qualified last year but exceed the threshold in the current year the IRS will send you a retroactive bill?
There probably won’t be too many buyers who qualify one year but not the next.
But this is my opinion and not based on much insight.

 

[WormtownKris]

Speaking of “on the hood” deductions, anyone know if state rebates are being done that way? MA is supposed to be rolling in that direction. Will Tesla work with state by state regs to facilitate state rebate programs? Or only the Fed IRA program?

 

[cvalue13]

Then if you qualified last year but exceed the threshold in the current year the IRS will send you a retroactive bill?

maybe!

but my understanding is that the “on the hood” works only because the buyer transfers the credit to the dealership, and so it’s the dealership that is assuming/filing for the credit

suppose the dealership could send a bill

but all-in-all, it circles back to the original question by @SolarWizard: what are the gymnastics and how exactly do the gymnastics go

 

[Greshnab]

Dealers typically have financing departments. Which encompasses income qualification.

the tax credit.. at least at the federal level is just that a federal income tax credit.. the dealer/manufacturer shouldn't really have anything to do with it.. your tax accountant will.

EDIT>>>
I withdraw my post.... per cnet this will become an on the hood tax... which is interesting as it is based on adjusted Gross income.. which depends on your investment into ira/401k... not sure how they are going to get that right, and like someone said what happens if they get it wrong.

 

[Greshnab]

yes, an "on the hood" deduction of purchase price (assuming the vehicle qualifies for either arm of the rebate, and purchaser meets income quals)

interesting i missed this post.. that will be interestin gto see in place.

 

[Crissa]

your tax accountant will.

The vast majority of people don't have tax accountants.

And so their AGI is just a line on their 1040 whatever.

-Crissa

 

[TBONO]

The vast majority of people don't have tax accountants.

And so their AGI is just a line on their 1040 whatever.

-Crissa

I believe the tax credit is applied when you file your taxes so even people who use TurboTax or tax prep type software will get asked if they bought an EV vehicle and it will compute the rebate based on the car and income parameters and populate your tax return

 

[Crissa]

I believe the tax credit is applied when you file your taxes so even people who use TurboTax or tax prep type software will get asked if they bought an EV vehicle and it will compute the rebate based on the car and income parameters and populate your tax return

That's true this year and past years...

...In the future it'll be another attached page you just get from the dealer, and you'll have already gotten the credit at time of purchase.

-Crissa

 

[TBONO]

That's true this year and past years...

...In the future it'll be another attached page you just get from the dealer, and you'll have already gotten the credit at time of purchase.

-Crissa

Oh…interesting. So I guess that puts a little bit more accountability with the dealer… ?
I don’t like that. I guess it’s good that people get their money credit back faster, but looks like anotherarea of potential dealer abuse.

 

[Crissa]

Oh…interesting. So I guess that puts a little bit more accountability with the dealer… ?
I don’t like that. I guess it’s good that people get their money credit back faster, but looks like anotherarea of potential dealer abuse.

You don't like... That people get the discount... When they need it?

I'm confused.

-Crissa

 

[SolarWizard]

good question.

My armchair understanding is that what actually happens "on the hood" is that the buyer assigns the credit to the dealership, and it's the dealership making the filing along with appropriate proof - presumably of buyer income (with the dealer otherwise having comfort around MSRP, vehicle qualification, etc.).

Accordingly, I assume that to get the "on the hood" credit dealers will be playing tax man, requiring appropriate paperwork regarding income - possibly some requirements that later in year buyers provide bring-down W2s etc?.

I know this form of "on the hood" credit has been used before, and across other contexts, but I've not personally been through it. Maybe others have and can weigh in

Dealers typically have financing departments. Which encompasses income qualification.

While thats generally accurate.
Advising people on tax liability is a different thing.

You don't like... That people get the discount... When they need it?

I'm confused.

-Crissa

The tax credit should be for everyone if its actually being done under the guise that EVs are better for the environment

 

[TBONO]

You don't like... That people get the discount... When they need it?

I'm confused.

-Crissa

I’m all for people getting discount. The part I’m not comfortable with is the dealership determining eligibility versus the government via my tax forms

does this mean the dealer needs my tax forms?

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