Solar panels and battery to get unlimited range ...

[Crissa]

I believe it is still true and I believe that I mentioned it. But it is NOT dynamic is my point. If you roll it down to 8A, then that's all you are going to get, 8A.
If you have full sunlight, it's not going to auto-adjust to 12A.

It's not the mobile charger that you adjust, it's the vehicle.

That's why you use a small battery in that case. It deals with the slight deficiencies or boosts of solar.

It's also why the optimal use of solar is just directly to the traction battery with an integrated system.

-Crissa

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[Woodrick]

That's what the solar "generator" battery is for. I only use the term "solar generator" because it's so common in the industry to call battery storage systems "battery generators" or "solar generators" even though I don't think it's very accurate or descriptive. I trust you know the basics.

Essentially, you feed the solar energy into the battery generator. Since battery generators can charge while you are drawing 120V current from the inverter you simply charge the car while the sun is shining. This is mostly to prevent the steady and predictable vampire drain that will eventually leave your battery flat (but with good solar conditions, and a good setup, you will be able to steadily add a bit a range to the battery every day). You can also run things off it, lights, charge devices, even a cooler if you have a reasonable solar array. That's in addition to adding a bit of range each day.

I would love it if Tesla offered DC charging inputs! And I'm sure they will some day, but probably not for a couple of years or more. By my estimation, DC solar inputs and a built-in MPPT charge controller would increase the output of your solar array by around 20-25% by bypassing the battery generator.

It's easy to say use them. But you are missing the sizing part.

And it you stop and think about it, you shouldn't charge the car during the daylight, that's the problem. You should wait until the sun stops shining.

 

[Darthamerica]

This is in the post you're quoting:



Maybe, I don't know, read the entire post before calling it 'optimistic'. I was pointing out why off the shelf wouldn't work - but why there's a chance for it to do more.

Elon's flat wrong on this. Vampire drain of electronics and battery management could be completely dealt with via solar panels.

Even on an older ICE car, it can help; as a higher voltage in the battery system lowers the drag of the alternator. On modern ICE cars, which can have clutches to the alternator, and this higher base voltage would encourage the car from employing the alternator altogether. (On my '02 Sentra I used a 12W panel and raise my mpg by 1mpg. Of course, I drove with headlights on 100% of the time using that car, which was known to reduce mpg by 1mpg.)

I have alot of practice with small-scale solar, in this century I have had multiple camping sets that I have integrated into my vehicles.


Tesla used to let you dial your mobile charger draw below 12amps. Is that no longer true?


Tesla monitors the power consumption of the low-voltage battery system very tightly. Unlike my ICE cars, it might complain when it finds the low voltage battery giving weird results to tests.

On the other hand... If it tolerates this, and is smart enough to only employ the DC-DC board when the low voltage battery drops lower, and there's enough room between the high and the low voltage levels... Then it would certainly help. But you'd have to basically be consuming that power you're adding on the low-voltage system all the time least the rather small low voltage battery fills up.

-Crissa

I read the post and it is optimistic. I know that because I've tried it before. Elon is not wrong. What I found out the hard way was that it was better to drive back to civilization and a SC and charge my battery and then return to the field vs worrying about if one of these experiments would work. Solar especially is too dependent on the right weather, location, and too limited in power output.

 

[Crissa]

You should wait until the sun stops shining.

Well, then you know how much power you have to put in.

But if you're charging via a camp set, when and how you charge is based off of when it fits into your schedule. I usually pack and unpack the solar LIFO - Last in, First out - so that I can leave it collecting sun.

My 40W set had, given a morning's sun, started a dead car more than once. It doesn't take much for it to be useful.

Especially with more efficient vehicles. Or if you want to use your electronics for light or entertainment. Every watt counts.

-Crissa

 

[Crissa]

I read the post and it is optimistic. I know that because ...

...You didn't read it and don't have a clue what you're saying.

Sometimes it's better to drive back, but most of the time what you use while camping isn't alot and all you want is to make sure you have enough range to get back.

-Crissa

 

[Darthamerica]

...You didn't read it and don't have a clue what you're saying.

Sometimes it's better to drive back, but most of the time what you use while camping isn't alot and all you want is to make sure you have enough range to get back.

-Crissa

Do you own a Tesla? Have you ever tried any of this?

 

[tmeyer3]

This is a fun game, I will play. I am aiming for a self contained, no "deployment" solution. It would just pivot up like a tonneau cover to use the bed.

• Canadian Solar TOPBiHiKu7 700w
• EG4 6000XP | 8000W PV Input | 6000W Output | 120/240V Split
• EG4-WallMount Indoor Battery | 48V 280Ah | 14.3kWh
• ~$5,000

The solar panel is about 94"x51". The battery could hold about ~30 miles of charge. With 700w it gathers around 3.5kw per day, or ~5 to 7 miles in ideal conditions.

Looks good to me! But the battery/charger is super overkill. This little guy is in spec for that panel, but it would charge it completely very quickly. If you went up to this, you'd be set for a day of driving.

Over a 5 day trip, this would allow you to only go about 10 miles further into the boondocks.
How many more places do you get between 150 and 160 miles away from the last charge point?
Oh, and you can't use the truck during the day. It needs to stay pointed at the sun.

Thus the solar generator in-betweens. Charges just fine while driving.

 

[Pops]

Over a 5 day trip, this would allow you to only go about 10 miles further into the boondocks.
How many more places do you get between 150 and 160 miles away from the last charge point?
Oh, and you can't use the truck during the day. It needs to stay pointed at the sun.

This will charge the external battery while the vehicle is in motion. It should be well more than 10 miles in 5 days, I would say at least 20. You can dump charge into the CT overnight.

But its still rather impractical and not cost effective. It a niche use case if you are trying to push the limits of capability.

 

[Woodrick]

As HaulingAss said previously there are several models that have been available for years.

It maybe niche but there seems to be enough volume that there are several competitors with retail ready-made off-the-shelf solar generators that can take solar input and output 230V/240V.

and prices seem to drop every years just like most LFP battery products.

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These are great examples of why Solare charging an EV really doesn't work anywhere near as well as people think that it should.

There' s multiple sides of the solution and these are missing hue parts.

Let's take the last one. The Hysolis for example.

At 4.4 kW, it will hold 3.5% of the Cybertruck's battery or about 10 miles.
It will charge in 90 minutes, and looking at their options, they have the bifacial 410 W solar panels. It will take about 10 of these panels to charge it in the 90 minutes. Those are 6ft x 3 ft cells, so 180 sqft of sunny space will be required and they weigh about 500 lbs in total for the cells.
You may be able to get 2 charge/discharges per day.

The questions are NOT
Can I charge off of solar generators?
Can I charge solar generators with solar cells?

It's how many miles do I get out these solutions.
How much work is it to set up?
What type of conditions need to exist?

There's just a level of scale that people are missing.
All of these solutions are in the neighborhood of 5kWH.

The Cybertruck has a 123kWh battery.

 

[Crissa]

Do you own a Tesla? Have you ever tried any of this?

So, you admit you were wrong, and you're shifting to a different argument to make up for it.

I already wrote that I have, in fact, had experience with multiple systems. Your focus on miles shows that you don't actually pay attention to what happens to your Tesla while it's sitting around.

-Crissa

 

[tmeyer3]

These are great examples of why Solare charging an EV really doesn't work anywhere near as well as people think that it should.

There' s multiple sides of the solution and these are missing hue parts.

Let's take the last one. The Hysolis for example.

At 4.4 kW, it will hold 3.5% of the Cybertruck's battery or about 10 miles.
It will charge in 90 minutes, and looking at their options, they have the bifacial 410 W solar panels. It will take about 10 of these panels to charge it in the 90 minutes. Those are 6ft x 3 ft cells, so 180 sqft of sunny space will be required and they weigh about 500 lbs in total for the cells.
You may be able to get 2 charge/discharges per day.

The questions are NOT
Can I charge off of solar generators?
Can I charge solar generators with solar cells?

It's how many miles do I get out these solutions.
How much work is it to set up?
What type of conditions need to exist?

There's just a level of scale that people are missing.
All of these solutions are in the neighborhood of 5kWH.

The Cybertruck has a 123kWh battery.

I thought we were talking about being parked with possibly short trips while camping? I don't think anyone was suggesting charging the truck in 90 minutes while camping.... Did I miss something? I may be skimming this thread too much.

I admittedly just ignore/skip over posts that are clearly only back and forths for some argument's sake.

 

[Crissa]

It's how many miles do I get out these solutions.

Why is it miles, and not days at a location?

-Crissa

 

[tmeyer3]

For clarification to all: my personal goal with these setups, which I do often, is to leave a camp with high soc than I arrived with. That's really all there is to it. @Crissa is correct, it's a function of time at a location. I use the solar generator for camp water pumps, heaters, lights, charging phones, ad nauseam. Dumping all excess solar and battery into the vehicle is more of a big bonus to these solutions.

That's just my angle and has been very successful for me since I do like to spend a week at a time at a a destination.

Hope that helps!

 

[Woodrick]

Well, then you know how much power you have to put in.

But if you're charging via a camp set, when and how you charge is based off of when it fits into your schedule. I usually pack and unpack the solar LIFO - Last in, First out - so that I can leave it collecting sun.

My 40W set had, given a morning's sun, started a dead car more than once. It doesn't take much for it to be useful.

Especially with more efficient vehicles. Or if you want to use your electronics for light or entertainment. Every watt counts.

-Crissa

I'm assuming that when you say "car" you are talking a 12V battery.

Different rules when talking inverters and EV charging.

Hint: You plug inverter into vehicle and it starts charging. But after a few minutes, there isn't enough charge in the battery and the inverter shuts down. Assuming a somewhat smart inverter, it waits for 10 minutes, until the voltage has increased on the battery and does the same thing, charges for a few minutes and shuts down.

Net result 1 minutes charging every 10 minutes. Results, battery level in truck goes down, because the truck isn't able to go to sleep and phantom drain occurs. I think that I've seen that in the Cybertruck, you may need about 5A @120V just to power the truck when it is awake.

If you are going to wake the truck to charge it, you better be providing enough to charge it.

That means, the Solar's battery really needs to have a full charge when starting.

 

[Woodrick]

Well, then you know how much power you have to put in.

But if you're charging via a camp set, when and how you charge is based off of when it fits into your schedule. I usually pack and unpack the solar LIFO - Last in, First out - so that I can leave it collecting sun.

My 40W set had, given a morning's sun, started a dead car more than once. It doesn't take much for it to be useful.

Especially with more efficient vehicles. Or if you want to use your electronics for light or entertainment. Every watt counts.

-Crissa

You charge the vehicle at night after the sun goes down. You charge the solar battery during the day.

As I said in my last post, a 400W cell hooked up to an inverter with a battery will probably discharge the truck.

A 40W cell? ROTFLMAO. Probably won't even wake up the truck.

I totally agree, every watt counts. No, sorry, I can't agree when charging an EV, a watt is a fleeting moment.

1440W is going to give maybe 2 mph, Anything less than that will tend to cause the truck to discharge.

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